I used to think those two words were mutually exclusive.
I know, I know, that is terribly narrow minded. I know.
But every hard core democrat I've ever talked to has spent their time explaining to me why they think abortion is acceptable, why homosexuals should have equal rights, etc. etc. So in my small mind, that doesn't often think about politics, I assumed that voting democrat translated to being in agreement with their social stand.
I had this great talk with my friend, Sara, the other day that opened my mind a little bit more. She claims she is a fiscal republican and a social democrat. Well since she is in fact a Christian, I found this so interesting. How could she find herself siding with the democrats on social issues that so clearly go against what God laid out in the bible. After all, this country was founded on God, by men in search for religious freedom. Most of their social platforms are directly opposing these ideals.
She explained, much better than I will now translate to you, that she doesn't agree with those issues, she just doesn't believe it is the governments job to legislate them. She doesn't believe that forcing people to make choices according to your beliefs is the way Jesus would have gone about it. She believes in meeting people exactly where they are and showing them God through a relationship. (Of course I believe that part, too. I think most of us do). She had a lot of other good points that I can't come up with right now. This would be why I am a horrible story relayer and awful debater. I can't always articulate what I want to.
It wasn't enough to consider for a moment changing my vote or my party. As a matter of fact I'm pretty pumped about Palin. But, I loved understanding that her views, like many other democrats, I'm sure, were very well thought out and I respected them greatly.
One of our pastors at church this morning said it well when he said, "It doesn't matter who is ruling the white house it matters who is ruling our hearts, which is hopefully, Jesus Christ." O.K., so maybe he said it a little more eloquently than that. But that was the main point.
Saturday, September 6, 2008
Christian Democrats
Posted by The Tomlinson Family at 4:17 PM
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7 comments:
Oh mi-gosh. I thought it was a sign from Revelations when I saw "The Tomlinson Family" with "Christian Democrats" underneath - then I read your blog - phew! LOL! I hate to say it, but I am a Christian who really wishes we could have a choise "C" this election. I don't really want to hand my vote to any of them.
I didn't want to vote McCain much, either, Al, until he added Palin to the ticket. I think she rocks.
As to the other stuff, every law on the book is about the government legislating morality and telling people how to live, I don't see why a Christian should make an exception for any of those other subjects. I've never heard a Christian say the government should allow murder or theft because they don't want to tell people how to live. Just sayin
Thanks for the kudos Beverly. Sorry I didn't change your vote - kidding! I'm still wrestling with who I will vote for. To "gin" - if your words make sense to you, I don't believe I've ever heard a more misguided comment. You clearly see all issues in black and white - moral or immoral - right or wrong. To quote Star Wars: "Only a Sith Lord (the dark lords) deals in absolutes". Its devastating to me that so many Christians today do the same thing...totally missing the point of God's new covenant with us - relationship with His Son! Heaven help me...I could go on forever here. But I'll put a muzzle on it and hope to remain your Christian Democrat friend!
Sara
Sara
I'm going to try and be really respectful in my response to you, so please take it that way. I know that in typing, reponses often come across in a way that is not intended (as I would like to hope some of your responses did).
I don't know what is more "devastating" to me, that you are founding a theological discussion on a Star Wars movie, or that you seem to have taken the life of Jesus to mean that there are no longer absolutes or "moral black and whites." To say that my Christianity is "misguided" because I believe that being a follower of Christ entails living according to a set of beliefs is curious. I'll quote the BIBLE by saying Jesus' own words back to you, "I did not come to abolish the law but to fullfill it." If you think the new covenant God established in Christ was to WIPE away the law, then I would say that you are missing a large part of the message of Jesus. If anything, Jesus' law was stricter. He said, "The law says not to murder, but I tell you anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgement." Along with, "You have heard it said do not commit adultery, but I tell you anyone that has lusted has already commited adultery in his heart."
So to say that Jesus brought a new covenant leaving the old covenant useless is ignoring a VERY LARGE part of the teachings of Jesus and virtually ignores Paul's teachings completely.
Jesus said, "If you love me you will keep my commandments." This IS the "point of the God's new covenant with us" and how we show Christ our love, obedience.
And NONE of this has anything to do with the political discussion anyway. Bev's post was talking about your response to why you are a Democrat even though that party's stance is pro-abortion. I was merely saying that to say that you are against abortion personally but don't think it's the government's job to tell people what to do is incoherent because EVERY law is telling people how to live.
I was in no way calling YOUR Christianity misguided, however, I was merely pointing out that that particular statement was illogical politically.
To quote another sci-fi theologian
Live long and prosper
Thank you for your mercy, and please forgive my accusatory language. And Bev - sorry to have surely embarrassed you! I'm not in the business of offending people - particularly people that I don't know! And I'm sick that I did...and baffled as to what got into me! Let me see if I can choose my words a little more judiciously this time.
I believe in the moral absolutes of the 10 commandments, which you eloquently quoted scripture pertaining to. These are God's laws, and no, the new covenant does not abolish the law. Where I stumble is that the social issues we debate in the political arena are not contained in the 10 commandments. Yet, Christians have made moral absolutes out of these issues - no doubt based on Biblical interpretation - such that they have come to share equal weight with the commandments, at least among Christians. It is not your Christianity that I think is misguided. Please don't think that!! What I think is misguided is to set public policy based on every Christian moral absolute - beyond God's 10 commandments...and not because I'm a moral relativist. I believe relationship with Christ must come FIRST, allowing Him to convict us individually (or not) of what is good and moral. And I just don't think public policy - no matter how "right" we are - can win other people for Christ. Only love can do that. If we're all sinful people...Christians and non-Christians alike, and we are, then making laws pertaining to one persons sin but not to another's is akin to throwing the proverbial first stone in my mind.
So there you have it - my crazy views. Thanks for listening.
Sara
PLEASE don't feel the need to apologize!! Everyone has put into type something that was taken another way - it's the nature of the medium. And Bev would have NO reason to be embarassed AT ALL. This is what comments are for on blogs - good discussion - which all Christians can participate in without worry cuz we're all supposed to give a little grace!! We are allowed to disagree on things!! And then vigorously debate it. As a matter of fact, I generally tend to think that's a lot of fun!! So PLEASE don't feel like anything you said offended me personally!! And I wouldn't want you to be offended that I disagree with you.
Just to show that the fun is in the conversation, I would say that while I agree with the spirit of your last post, I could also make the arguement, quite easily, that the issues on the line ARE in the 10 commandments.
So there! (Just kidding around of course with the whole so there thing. Just being clear LOL)
I am not embarrassed by either of you. I am just happy someone is finally commenting on my blog!
I know Gin well enough to know that she hasn't taken anything personally and I hope the same is true for Sara.
I didn't realize my blog had room for controversy. Maybe I should think up some other issues to blog about so more people will make comments on my blog. KIDDING. Really, I'm just kidding.
It's great to be passionate about something, no matter where you stand on an issue. As long as you know why you believe what you believe. It sounds like both of you do. I cannot always say the same for myself, outside of the bible, that is. I know why I believe that. But other political issues I often have beliefs I can't explain. I need to work on this.
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